Talk:Badass Adaptation/@comment-33383995-20171017122458/@comment-33383995-20171024115513
ok, I didn't remembered him transcendencing time, but I can't aruge with jiren transcendencing time now. The flames would kill him. to put it simple, goku, as long as he can't warp reality and ressurect himself, cannot survive being buren with Ultimate Burning. Goku have limits. The very fact he keeps getting stronger and stronger is the perfect exmaple to the fact he still have limits which he constantly goes beyond. This is the entire idea behind dragon ball. Overcome your limits. The moment goku would be limitless, dragon ball is over. If in "pierce time and space" you mean going through hit's time skip, then that's not piercing time and space, it's just being strong enough to resist the ability of a person to stop time around someone. also, the manga is still the cannon. technically, everything that happeneds only in the anime of super and not in the manga is non cannon. now, while it's true that in super saiyan goku would be a more troublesome enemy, again, if he can depower goku constantly while evolving his own powers, it would eventually make him stronger then goku. And no, goku is not 4th dimensional. Unless, again, you have a scene that I haven't seen yet, or a scan from the manga that shows goku to be 4th dimensional and having punchs packing infinite strengh (which is something that issei's corrent strongest form have, together with ultimate burning, omnicombastion and eternal flames manipulation), I won't think he can defeat issei. Of course the one above all, the presence, man of miracle, kami tenchi, lord of nightmares and eru can defeat issei, they are omnipotent, this powers does not works on omnipotence. But he is capable of banding and breaking logic with his abilities, so nigh omnipotent beings still loose to issei. and again, issei cannot die by any physical means, because he would just have a new body made for him, so someone like goku, whcih, let's be honest, is just a huge wall of meat and muscelse, he have nearly 0 hax and special reality warping abilities, and apart from instant teleportaiton and ki manipulation (who's honestly just gives him his SSJ transformation and blowing shit up with energy beams) he have zero non physical abilities. fine, the ultimate burning negates durability, and i rhink it is a hax. bu issei still can't survive if the manga goku hakai's him, that collaspes both his body and erases his soul as well lets be honest, by saying pierce soace and time i meant the fight between goku and beerus would destroy countless atl dimensons like ROSAT, whis's two dimensions+more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdzZYFeuis here where world of void is stated to be INFINITE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afEoVgQEXYs and here's where jiren shook it. https://pm1.narvii.com/6613/fc6315b69a49fb3b0d339b8cce2df82d3eb5c3bb_hq.jpg http://pm1.narvii.com/6610/6e85c4722fcb86b78ef74d9e0b8da561e20ef82d_hq.jpg also, goku now has 4 dimensional power, and zeno was taken by everyone to be ULTIPOTENT. yet a downplayer did everything to eliminate zeno from the list because he hates zeno, even though everyone agreed. he is called solipeus. believe me, if zeno shoes reality warping powers and yet solipeus try to remove him i will ban him in dragon ball wiki. also, no, that issei with infinite strength doesnt make him infinite unless he shows to destroy an infinite world for example, https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cdd42bjlXM8/maxresdefault.jpg super buu says he is omnipotent. is he? also in an early manga scene i think king piccolo said "do you know i have limitless power? i can destroy the world if i want to!" sorry, i don't have the scan btw you made it obious you don't see dragon ball. there are countless outliners in fiction.